Episode 14: Current Trends Increasing Insurance Loss Rations Transcript

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Wesley Todd [00:06]: This is the Litigation Management podcast and I’m your host, the CEO of CaseGlide, Wesley Todd. If you hear cars racing in the background, it’s because there’s a huge grand pre-race going on here this weekend. And they’re doing like the testing run right now. So don’t blame me. We’re in St. Pete. As you guys know, on the Litigation Management podcast, I interview some of the most influential people in and around Litigation Management. It’s Friday afternoon, beautiful day here. I’m really excited to talk to Ryan Young, and Ryan is going to share his background and experience and we work closely with Ryan. They’re a partner over at Gramercy Risk. Ryan, welcome to the Litigation Management podcast. Can you tell the audience about your background and experience?

Ryan Young [00:50]: Sure. Wes, thanks for having me. Ryan Young, I run the specialty Risk Services Division here at Gramercy. We focus on offering third party services to carriers, reinsurers, programs, you name it, to really help them manage litigation, and manage the expenses and ratios, loss ratios, so that they can offer a better product. And CaseGlide is one of the tools that we use here at Gramercy, both internally and for those clients abroad to help them better manage litigation.

Wesley Todd [01:25]: I really appreciate you joining us today. I know how busy you are, you’re managing quite a bit of litigation for a lot of these carriers. And as a partner of ours, I’ve watched how you profess you’ve grown the business, and it’s been awesome to see. And you know, just you tell your prospects, the same thing you tell your clients, and I think you have a really unique perspective on effective Litigation Management and 2022, what I call litigation management 2.0. What I’d like to whatever, you know, I love your perspective on the market. What I’d like to start with is, what’s the state of the market? What are the external forces that we in the litigation department need to be aware of that are impacting the industry?

Ryan Young [02:19]: I mean, I think what we’re seeing now, the big buzzwords were, you know, a couple years ago, it was social inflation, and now we’re seeing the word inflation thrown around. We’re all feeling the pressures, whether it’s the geopolitical effects or the internal effects of inflation, and then the lingering effects of COVID. What those mean for litigation, it’s often difficult to quantify. So we found is that these social factors, when you’re a claims professional, we can provide this subjective kind of gut instinct that these are impacting our business. I was just on the phone with a client the other day an actuary, and they want to identify what are these impacts, but it’s very hard to quantify this. And that’s really where something like, CaseGlide can help us. Not just from dollars and cents, but what are the impacts on the litigation itself? Are we seeing these lost drivers that we as claims professionals, whether it’s attorneys, adjusters, managers, supervisors, it doesn’t matter? Whether these factors are really affecting our business and how it’s affecting the business? You know, we can continually say it’s affecting, but until we can quantify that, and how do we quantify that? Is that additional rate as needed, that CaseGlide can be used to feed more data into underwriting to say, hey, we’re seeing a 20% rate increase on this sub casualty class, meaning, you know, the places that we’re seeing that it mentioned in the media and in the conversations I’m having are in Commercial Auto lines for repairs, and being able to get parts and then construction, and how long things are taking in the cost of business. And unfortunately, what the reason inflation, underwriter is gonna have to keep pace with that. But how do we advise underwriting which is really a mathematical formula, versus something that’s subjective in the minds of claims professionals? And then you add in the fact that it’s often a different language between the two kind of major silos with insurance companies underwriting and claims and Gramercy really helps bridge that gap is that we look at, okay, well, what are the factors that are being mentioned within the management team, whether that’s a TPA, whether that’s a carrier run off, you name, it doesn’t matter who it is. And then we go in and look using a tool like CaseGlide to see can we identify those factors and quantify those? Can we mitigate those using CaseGlide and our team? Because what Gramercy really does is uses our professionals, our brainpower to leverage a tool like a CaseGlide to get better results for the client. So we bridge that gap and then if the client wants or would permit us to then we feed those results back into underwriting to what I’ve always called throughout my career is, you know, finishing the circuit. Making it instead of litigation being and claims being from underwriting to claims litigations and being a linear kind of practice, the time what’s happened in litigation using data back and underwriting makes it more of a circular approach, so that the loop continually feeds back into itself. And we can then provide those numbers and get a better result. Because often as a claims professional, we get it at the end. We didn’t get to choose the rate, we didn’t make the facts, we didn’t make the law, and we’re left to deal with it. But if we can have some input back into that circle, we can help get the results to be better over the course of time, and then provide that better result. And I think you’ll hear from me as we go forward. Is that what that’s what’s Gramercy, Gramercy is really focused on providing a better result, a value add, a return on investment to our clients. And if we can’t do that, we haven’t done our job. And I think using tools and our personnel to feed into that whole continuum, is really helpful. And inflation is kind of that, prime example is that it’s a factor that wasn’t appreciated when rating was done in 2021, or before. It’s something that’s affecting now. But how do we mitigate that, and what host of features, whether it’s rating, risk management, better litigation management, and then you add in data, and getting that data to make those decisions, we’re being informed. And I think you know, what we love about CaseGlide is that it gives us data in places that we’ve never had it before, or we had spotty data, or incomplete data. And when you start looking at large sets, if it’s incomplete, it’s not as helpful as it could be. So we at Gramercy have worked with your team. Identifying data sets on our system that we find relevant to our business to help us better manage our internal business, and then turn that out to other clients, insurance companies, reinsurers, syndicates, MGAs, legacy carriers, it doesn’t matter, we call it insurance markets. And what we’ve learned by using your software to make our products better, we then help other clients do that. And I think right now, inflation seems to be the big one. If social inflation was for a while, COVID definitely impacted that. And I would say COVID is the second one because it increased cycle times and increase the time of litigation quotes for closing. So now we’re coming out of that, but you’re having cases that sat on the books for too long. And we all know, as litigation claims professionals, longer case, it’s the worst again, they never get better with time. So now we have this backlog that we’re left to deal with. And the final one I’ll mention is, we do have what we’re seeing is a staffing issue. We’re seeing lots of people leave the insurance profession, adjusters a lot of movement, whether you whether you buy into the great resignation terminology that’s being used. But there’s people retiring, there’s people that retire early because of COVID, you name it a number of reasons. But there’s a lot of turnover more than I’ve seen in the past, just from my personal experience and that’s not helping the backlog. And then that drive not only cycle times up, but its increasing claim volumes, and the trying to replace those bodies with people. It’s difficult. So you have these external factors that are already pushing, you know, loss ratios up to a market, that’s it’s was already tough. And now we’re having to address those in the client, I really do believe the insurance markets that address them the fastest and take the time to care will reap the benefits going forward. And that’s really what we talk to our clients about how do we address those and each individual line of business?

Wesley Todd [08:49]: That’s really helpful. You know, the audience may have heard of one or two or you know, some pieces of that. But number one being the inflation piece, you know, which comes in different shapes and sizes like you said. Number Two being COVID. And just a different environment that we’re in as a result. And number three, being remind me what number three was, again, it was my favorite one, talents. Oh, yeah.

Ryan Young [09:18]: And acquisition.

Wesley Todd [09:18]: Yeah, and I had a little brain fart there. But yeah, I mean, that third one is becoming more and more ever present. I think that was really great. I have a note here to follow back up because I think you’re bringing up the closed loop on underwriting is something that, this may be the first time we’ve talked about on the podcast, and it may not be that apparent to your, you know, to one of your junior adjusters or attorneys. And so I’m gonna kind of set this one out. I want you to dig into this before we move on to the next topic, which is that environment that these folks are living in internally with their systems and in their processes that sort of hamstring them before I go there, help people understand how the underwriting piece works, because I’m going to totally dumb it down, and then I want you to elaborate on it. Litigation expense doesn’t really matter if it’s priced it. The problem is, is as its price changes, if litigation gets more expensive, you now lose money as an insurance company. I believe that as long as every insurance company loses money, then they all raise their prices, and nobody, it doesn’t really matter. But what you know, what you would expect in the future with all this innovation money going into insurance is that there will be a drive, I think you brought this up, which market you know, gets to this first. There will be a drive to try to offer the cheapest prices in which means they’re actually going to try to control their expense as opposed to just continuing to raise the price. And so that closed circuit, I think that made me new information, because I think a lot of attorneys just think or adjusters you know, if something’s expensive, it’s bad. If it’s cheap, it’s good. But truthfully, it’s just if it’s a surprise or not, right? And then if that surprise can be course corrected over future rates. Before we move on, talk a little bit about that, because this may be the first time we’ve talked about that on the podcast.

Ryan Young [11:18]: Yeah, as long as the ultimate cost of the claim, whether that’s litigation expense, whether that’s indemnity is appreciated in a proper capacity, are you really the account should be rated if you’re just talking about not the risk for risk appearance, but just the back end the claims. The problem is, is when those claims now become 15%, 20%, 30% more costly is that, and that, and now we’re getting hit by a couple of factors. One, we’re getting hit by inflation, meaning verdicts are going to be higher. So you double down on inflation, social inflation, which we’ve been talking about for years, and how do you quantify that? And then you add in the delays, it has to be appreciated with an underwriting with debits. And how you do that is for people different than me, but whether it’s development and marketing and underwriting on how you appreciate that some markets will be affected sooner than others. We’re already seeing that in the construction, which Gramercy is heavily involved in construction, and specifically New York labor law, which we’re very early, very invested in right now and do a lot of work in that space. Commercial Auto, like I mentioned, so there are going to be ones that are that are touched first, but the faster that risk takers, markets can appreciate what that is and quantify that. And you know, it’s easier for ENS markets, not admitted markets to make the rate change, of course, admitted markets have to go through approval process so it’s harder. But even if it’s not fed back into underwriting, changes can be made within the litigation management. And that’s kind of where CaseGlide can come in that want a system that’s you know, modify the way Gramercy works is that we can identify those factors and be ahead of the game. You know, I give you an example of when I started my career in Litigation Management, we were doing this with people, lots and lots of bodies. And it wasn’t necessarily cost effective, but that’s what we had. There weren’t systems like CaseGlide out there to really help us get a handle on this with smaller, highly educated, experienced claim professionals that could look at datasets, identify where the pressure points are, and what needed to be addressed. The major difference was, I always felt like I was sticking my hand and holes in the dam just to hold it back. So it didn’t burst. Whereas with the data in a system like CaseGlide, I can now be proactive, and my team will, if they listen to this will hear and hear me say this a lot is that now we can take the fight to them. Instead of being reactionary, we can be proactive in our management or Claims Management are reserving and the clients like that the, you know, the insurance clients actuaries like that. They have more data to prove our points. It’s not just me coming to them. So the loop can be closed in a number of factors. But we can also alleviate risk concerns by understanding what the pressures are that are driving our losses. And I’ll tell you most insurance companies that we see, and claims don’t break out their costs. So to really get down to DCC your defense containment costs and where are expenses being driven? Not just what coverage’s are we paying on? What are we paying more for? We pay more for experts. Are we paying more for legal like the time, the teeny from our lawyers? Are we paying more for travel or wherever it is? We can prove up that case and say, Look, we’re paying more for this and down to the zip code in most cases, depending on how much data you have in a given place. Whether you want to go that far into the weeds is up to your team and how far how valuable it is. But it often proves up the point and allows us to tell underwriting, hey, we may need a debit in this area. Maybe it’s a city, maybe it’s a state, maybe it’s the southeast, maybe it doesn’t matter. But it’s, we’re able to say, look, are we just need to look at this more deeply. And it may not be, we need 20% here, but it’s, hey, underwriting, you need to have a concern here. So when you’re just underwriting it, maybe it’s not a formal metric that comes down from the CEO, the Chief Underwriting Officer to the underwriting team, if you’re running in the Southwest, and you’re doing commercial auto, we’re seeing repair costs take X number of days longer, so it’s driving costs up, it maybe is as easy as that. But in the past, most of those conversations didn’t happen on when claims are on the back end.

Wesley Todd [15:45]: Man, I feel like my brain is kind of flying around right now. Because I’m thinking about the whole idea you know, what if when you know, particular book of business was written, and you said, Okay, we expect this much litigation, you know, frequency and severity. What if we told the attorneys and adjusters but what’s, you know, we expect to get this many lawsuits, and they’re going to cost this much. So if it’s not you know, because what does an attorney just supposed to do, they actually don’t know what that original pricing was. So you know, imagine if, and then all of a sudden, maybe an extra 10% of lawsuits came in, which sort of flattens it, and it’s like, okay, we need to spend a little bit less on each case. Like, what if you gave them that perspective? Talk about a closed loop, it’s like the different it’s you know, both ways. You’re gonna give them back and tell them, hey, they may need to charge more, but maybe they should tell you how you need to spend less.

Ryan Young [16:45]: Well, I think it’s also alignment of interest to is that, you know, I think for years, at least in my opinion, you’ve seen your insurance company, and you’re insured, and your adjuster and your lawyer all is different disparate parts of a puzzle, were really Gramercy thinks that as a team, that if we align the interests appropriately, that we get a better product you know, Gramercy, you know, was founded from what originally was right risk management, that was a New York company, but some of the attorneys that have worked with our predecessor company are still with us today working on our programs. And what that is, those attorneys and their interests are aligned with us in the sense that, that they’re part of the team. And that it’s not just, you know, who sent me tickets to the game? We’re all working for a common goal here. We want the best result possible, whatever that is, whether it’s settlement or trial, it doesn’t matter. It’s what the case dictates. But I think, it’s important part is that if we’re all of our interests are aligned to do the job right. Not just fast, not just cheap, but right, whatever that is, then the results are correct you know, because we’re doing the best job we can do. It’s like, I tell my son when I was basketball coach, and I said, Look, if you get leave it all out on the court, and do everything you can you still lose, it is what it is. But that’s kind of what the mentality is, is that we do the work that we’re supposed to do. We do from a TPA perspective, we do the investigation, we need to get all the things in line that we need to do to make an assessment of the risk. And when that goes to counsel, the same thing, you do the depositions and discovery, you follow the motions. And then we make a decision, whoever that is, whether that’s the carrier or team of us, your advice, and what CaseGlide is a tool to better do that. It gives us the ability to all be on the same page real time to understand the pressures, whether that’s the things we talked about the external challenges. But it gives us the ability to all be on the same page. It’s not just back in the day where, it’s just here’s my 90 day report which is normally a regurgitation of everything that’s happened before with some new information. But now we can say, okay, when do we need to have that call because something changed? What change? Why did it change? Let us appreciate the change. If its effects reserves, it affects reserves. If it doesn’t, we move on to the next one. And I think that’s what’s so intriguing to me is that it’s not just that constant of holding back the dam, it’s we have the data now to figure out where we need to touch the file in order to get the result that we’re shooting for. Not to say we’ll get there, but now we have that information to now make the right decision and to make it real time. I think if the audience listen to this, it’s making litigation decisions real time, not three weeks later, not six weeks late. We’re now with the team. And I’ll say this too, is that one of the things that Gramercy does is as your clients so we’re a user, and we also for our internal purposes, but we also use it for other third party other clients that buy your system and have us almost be a super user of the system. So I want to make sure the audience is clear. What Gramercy does is helps clients take a great system, but have the people that know how to use it to get them the results that they were hoping for. The system is great, but you also have to know how the system can impact your individual business to make the results even better. So you may get 5% savings, but with drilling down and using the data to implement in your business, it goes up from there. And so that’s really I think the value add for Gramercy is that, we take it to the next level, and we have the people that have been in the trenches that understand when you know, mostly casualty classes, severity classes is where we see the most value add for our business. And when we consult on, because the loss costs, get out of control, the expenses get out of control, the indemnity, that’s the easier way for most clients understand the cost containment. But I think the active management is the key there, and getting that real time accurate data, it’s just and I will say this, it’s coming. Whether it’s all the insurance, because you think you’re seeing a pressure to get claims organizations, and whether it’s TPAs, internal, external doesn’t matter to be better. And we’ve always put you know, we have underwriting systems, we have claim systems and put structure, and you know all this data around them. But litigation, really, to be honest, was the last kind of bastion of really very limited systems. And how do we manage it? How do we get around it? And I think CaseGlide solves that, and gives people like me a platform to work with our attorneys, and work with our claims professionals and work with our risk takers. And that, by in and of itself aligns our interests together. So we’re all on the same platform, saying the same thing, making the decisions, and then holding ourselves accountable for those decisions, that you know, we make decisions in the claims world with incomplete information. Because we had a crystal ball to be honest, none of us would be here, we’d be off you know, we’ve won the lottery, you would know what the numbers are, but that’s okay. That we make the decisions based on incomplete information. When the data changes, we make those notes, we make those changes, but we make them real time now. It’s not three months late. And that helps insurance companies on actuary that helps attorneys to understand where they are, how they need to litigate, what strategies they should employ. Getting paid faster, you know, it’s always important. And the adjusters are in the loop every step along the way, managing that litigation with us to make sure that all the interest and all the disparate parties are together and marching in lockstep. And I’ll say the last thing is, it doesn’t create a breaking that wall for the plaintiffs bar, that there’s no us versus them. We’re here together to defend the insured on this loss. And we’re all acting together from the carrier down, to the attorney down, the adjuster we’re here together and this is what we’re doing. And this is how we’re organized. Because the plaintiff’s bar has been organized for a very long time. You know, we need to and this is a tool now that’s giving us the ability to set the playing field a little bit more level.

Wesley Todd [23:15]: Now, that’s a fantastic answer. This is great level of insight. You know, what’s interesting about it is I think that everybody would agree, like defense lawyers wouldn’t be upset to be measured on whether they’re winning or not, adjusters want to win, insurance companies want to win like and, you know, none of this the nobody wants to do anything. They don’t need to do to help them win. And I just think that over time, there’s just been so many, you know, to use your basketball analogy. You know, the scoreboard only showed turnovers, showed a legal expense, it didn’t show a point. So, you’re sitting here saying, oh, this player stinks, because he had four turnovers, but he might have had 45 points, he might have had the ball in his hands 40% of the game. You know, he might have had 10 assists, he might have had 15 rebounds. But he might have had, you know, 8 turnovers and or 5 turnovers and what everybody is on the same page about but it’s taking time to your point is changing the scoreboard, and then everybody rowing in the same direction. So that was a really helpful you know, explanation of that. And so I want to move on to a different topic, as we know, we can talk all day, Ryan, as we have in the past. I want to ask you about you know, I think you’ve already talked about some of the stuff we were planning on talking about like, what do you seen that’s working around data and around you know, closed loop with the underwriting and around hiring the best attorneys. Just real quick talk to me about because you really did paint this picture of where everything’s headed. What are the things that are getting in the way now? Like, what is it about the current screen that an adjuster and attorneys looking at or what is it about the current scoreboard? You know, and I think you’ve touched on this a little bit with talent, staffing, but why can’t we even get out of our own heads and even get started on this next project of Litigation Management 2.0, what’s holding us back?

Ryan Young [25:22]: Yeah, I think the systems we use which is email, you know, the back and forth, and one of the things we talked about internally is picking up the phone and having a conversation. We’ve gotten away from that personal side of the business that’s we needed, let’s talk this out, and it’s largely because it’s expensive. But when you know, for example, I’ve got some phenomenal adjusters on our team that are handling some complex litigation. And what they’ve done is developed a great relationship with the attorneys, and that’s because we deploy systems. And we have CaseGlide, and we know what’s going on the file. So when our adjusters call, the attorneys already know that they know what’s going on in the file. It’s not just, tell me what’s happened. So it’s a higher level conversation, but it’s also an educated conversations, what do we need to do? Why do we need to do it? What happened? You know, let’s get this fixed, whatever the nature is, but it that’s what lawyers want to do the trial lawyers, they want to try cases you know. The paperwork, part of it. The documents, discovery, but travelers, they want to try cases, where they want to actively pursue cases, whatever, however, whatever bucket you want to put it in, but when you partner, you know, adjusters that have the proper volumes, the proper claim volume, so they can be educated about all their files. And with attorneys that actually you know, really invested and interests are aligned together. You know, I think you pick up the phone and have a conversation with people. It’s not a, you know, just that email, that’s what’s going on. It’s here’s the last status report, we knew what happened, have we done this, this and this? If not, let’s do this. But we pick up the phone have that conversation, I think we’ve lost a lot of that in the recent 5, 10 years, because we rely on email. The personal side, I think, still important. And even though we’re using a system like CaseGlide, I don’t think that takes away from the personal side of the business you know, we’re allowed. I think what it does is actually emphasizes the lawyer to knowledge, because instead of doing some of the basic processing stuff, we can really drill down to what we need from the lawyer, the geographic jurisdictional expertise and the evaluative stuff. And that’s what do you think, you’ve got 25 years, 30 years in this jurisdiction, probably 15 cases with this judge against this plaintiff’s attorney. How’s this case gonna play out? And then not only once we have that question, we answered, we can put that data into a system. So people that are all over the file, whether it’s the risk taker, the TPA, the MGA can now see those evaluations from the person we want the data from, and the TPA, who we want the data from, because this isn’t to say that I want the lawyer judgment to replace the adjusters judgment, those are should be the same or similar and where they’re not, here’s the brilliance about CaseGlide, is that if there’s a disagreement, that’s where Gramercy gonna go in and say, why? What’s going on here that you know, the evaluation from the lawyer isn’t jiving with the adjuster that’s not jiving with expenses and indemnity. What’s the breakdown, where in the past, it would have probably come out at a $25 million verdict, what did we miss? With those anomalies now, when you align the insurance, you get the team on the board, and you have the same system. We’re able to see those kind of policy disagreements, differences of opinion about where things should go. But we’re able to appreciate those and allow whoever setting the reserves and understand the risk taker to understand that there’s both sides of the argument, that litigation, this isn’t always a science. Litigation is very much an art things happen. It’s a living, breathing thing. And it’s I wish it was linear, it’d be much easier if it’s linear, but it moves and jives and moves all over the place. And we need to be able to do that, and a system like CaseGlide helps us do that, helps us do that more efficiently to with less team. I think I said that in the beginning. I don’t need 40 people to manage 1000 files. I need a lot less because I can deploy technology to have the key people where they’re supposed to be.

Wesley Todd [29:44]: So you’re saying we need a lawyer’s evaluation, we need to know exposure, favorability level, what track is this on? You’re saying we don’t need to fight about every six minutes. You’re saying we don’t need a status update every 30 days and say nothing’s happened. You’re saying we don’t need a 13 page initial case review that gets hidden into an email inbox that cost five grand. I mean, that’s how we’re currently being measured. So your point is, we really don’t need a whole lot, we need to know what the lawyer thinks, it’s best to have it in some kind of field so that we can keep score, and they need to have the phone call. All the other stuff is, and I don’t think we have a sensor on this podcast, I won’t say it, but all the other stuff is. So yeah, and by the way, they spend 90% of their time doing all the other stuff.

Ryan Young [30:41]: And I would say, most of my career, whether it’s been here at Gramercy or not, it to me, it’s always been common sense. I need to know what I need to know to make a decision, I rely on my people to give me that information. You know, our internal guidelines are the ones we give to clients, we need to trust the people around us to provide us with the information that makes sense, and to work diligently to do that. And to hold ourselves accountable to get that done. You know, we monitor that we put checks and balances you know, to make sure that the work is getting done. But most lawyers, we understand what we need to do. And we understand I mean, I was a trial lawyer for a number of years. But it’s important to get the right information into the right people’s hands in a timely fashion. And it’s form over substance, and I get it, and I understand. Look, we do have clients that want those every 30, 60, 90 days, and we’ll have the real conversation with them. And sometimes they change, sometimes they’re curmudgeonly, and they want to maintain their process, that’s fine. But we really were able to find, you know, whether it’s a toggle button within CaseGlide that you can put on there, and it says something’s changed, or a reserve alert that you turn on the evaluation changes from favorable to unfavorable. I mean to me, that’s the most key outlier, that when an attorney does a deposition, they come back in a deposition before they even written a report, that favorable is going to come to unfavorable, because our client admitted something in a deposition that they never told us before, and I get an alert as the manager on that file. Guess, I’m picking up the phone, like we just talked with what happened, you can send me the report, but what happened? And then we can start the claim process in the backend to appreciate how that impacts, you know, strategy reserving etc. But we know, and I don’t think anybody’s going to have a problem with more knowledge. It’s when we’re surprised, I think that ties into what we talked about the beginning. We don’t like surprises in litigation and claims, if they happen, and that’s fine. But there’s justifiable things that happened in a follow on there’s things that happen, because we didn’t care. We weren’t diligent, we didn’t have the way to find the data, to get the data into the hands, when that happens a lot. And fortunately, we see a lot of clients, and we spent a lot of time coaching them on how do they get to data? Unfortunately, some just don’t know, it’s even available to obtain. You know, I don’t know how to get this, and I don’t have the institutional world to get it. But how do we get it? Can we leverage a company like Gramercy to even make a business case for it for us to go to our execs to say, this is the business case for a system like CaseGlide? And this is the savings that it can offer. And this is why we need it. We’ve been back and forth with a client right now recently, that just their system doesn’t have the ability to get the data to the level they need it. So we’re doing it manually, and it’s astronomically expensive. And they’re actually considering adopting the CaseGlide system. But you know, it’s not going to happen fast enough for that individual client. So they’re seeing the pain of having to do it manually. And when it’s manual, it’s a snapshot in time. It’s we can tell you what that file says today, but there’s no way to update that date on Excel spreadsheet or Word doc, all the old school antiquated ways of doing this. Whereas a system like CaseGlide, is the expectation is the lawyers are modifying that information as the litigation is going. So when it changes, it’s real time. And so that we know where our book stands at any given time. And that’s just so valuable, whether it’s an MGA, a program administrator, you know, Legacy market, reinsure, I mean, I can’t tell you, it’s applicable to everybody. It’s just a question of who’s ready to adopt it, and figure out how best helps their business. Every business is different you know, and every business got different concerns. And that I think, what Gramercy because of the expertise we have from our CEO or COO down into, you know, our adjusters we’ve lived it. You know, we’ve built insurance companies, we built programs, we built TPAs, we’ve had them, we have all that institutional expertise, so we understand it. We understand what our clients are going through. And that’s why, you know, we’re here to help. And I’ll tell you this is that, you know, my CEO Williams and Fishlinger are always telling me, what did you do to help the client? That honestly, that’s the number one question. Are we helping? If we’re not, we shouldn’t be working with them. And that’s really what I think fundamentally, we’re about a Gramercy is how do we help. And I think a tool like CaseGlide really helps us help them. It’s cost effective, it’s data centric, and allows me to deploy my team effectively to get the results that all these clients need. And they should have, frankly, they should have access to all their data and understand what they’re writing and what they’re doing and how expenses and all the concerns internal and external, and all these future concerns that we have coming down the pike who knows what’s going to come tomorrow. But if you have access to the data, you can always bend to the wins that you need to keep your business running profitably.

Wesley Todd [36:02]: Well, I think that that’s a good way to round up, I’m going to throw in a little plug for Gramercy, because you kind of just brought it up. Gramercy has an experience of, they built an insurance company, you know, the leadership, they built the TPA, they’ve also built a law firm. So they’ve had success in every one of those. And that equation has led to some incredible results. And it’s why you guys are growing so fast, and I’ve watched it go. And obviously, you have the winning formula, because you know, your clients banging down the door to work with you. And I’ve watched it from when you kind of started the initiative, and it’s been incredible to watch. And it’s really exciting because it’s perfectly aligned with our principles of you know, saving these companies money, and doing it in a way that’s obvious, but for whatever reason has been overlooked, which is you know, aligning everybody versus making everybody fight. So, you know, Gramercy has been incredible. Ryan, you and I can talk all day, we will talk all day. I want to end by asking you, if somebody wants to reach out to ask you more about the stuff he talked about, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Ryan Young [37:17]: Sure. My emails are [email protected], and you can check us out on our website at gramercyrisks.com. And we can more than happy to reach out and have dialogue and see if we can help. I think that’s the most important part. We’re here to help and reach out if you have the time. Love to have the conversation.

Wesley Todd [37:35]: Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing your insights with this group. I promise that they’re gonna get a lot out of it. And let’s do it again soon.

Ryan Young [37:42]: Great. Thank you. I appreciate the time, Wes.

Listen to the full podcast here.

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